2020-08-10 02:57:58
2020-08-07 17:24:02
2020-08-07 17:24:02
2754
Part of the reason I wanted to join Motley is because I hoped I'd get higher quality discussions than elsewhere on the internet (and broader opinions outside my own IRL friend group). That said, I'm going test the waters with an unpopular opinion. I'm definitely open to feedback and willing to change my mind.
I've seen a lot of arguments made that white people shouldn't use the raised fist gesture (what I will call the solidarity fist) because it is cultural appropriation of the Black Power Fist. I'm frustrated by this because:
1) It ignores the extensive historical significance of the solidarity fist in socialist, labor, South American, feminist, and other radical movements.
2) It treats Black people and Black Activists as sharing a universal opinion, when during many of my recent protests Black protest leaders have explicitly invited white people to participate in the Power Fist and other "not for you" gestures and chants.
3) It seems to misuse or misunderstand cultural appropriation, since the use of the solidarity fist *in the context of BLM protests* respects the source and significance of the gesture (Here I'm relying on the 3 S's of source, significance/sacredness, similarity as a measure of cultural appropriative-ness).
I wish these conversations could include more nuance around why/when certain behaviors are inappropriate rather than demanding blanket bans. Clearly context matters and a bunch of white guys raising their fist around a confederate flag means something different than when a multiracial group wearing BLM shirts does it.
I also feel this way about context and appropriation with short identifiers (especially acronyms) like blm, poly, nb, etc. but that's a whole 'nother discussion. Fewer than 4 letters and you generally can't claim ownership of it.
I've seen a lot of arguments made that white people shouldn't use the raised fist gesture (what I will call the solidarity fist) because it is cultural appropriation of the Black Power Fist. I'm frustrated by this because:
1) It ignores the extensive historical significance of the solidarity fist in socialist, labor, South American, feminist, and other radical movements.
2) It treats Black people and Black Activists as sharing a universal opinion, when during many of my recent protests Black protest leaders have explicitly invited white people to participate in the Power Fist and other "not for you" gestures and chants.
3) It seems to misuse or misunderstand cultural appropriation, since the use of the solidarity fist *in the context of BLM protests* respects the source and significance of the gesture (Here I'm relying on the 3 S's of source, significance/sacredness, similarity as a measure of cultural appropriative-ness).
I wish these conversations could include more nuance around why/when certain behaviors are inappropriate rather than demanding blanket bans. Clearly context matters and a bunch of white guys raising their fist around a confederate flag means something different than when a multiracial group wearing BLM shirts does it.
I also feel this way about context and appropriation with short identifiers (especially acronyms) like blm, poly, nb, etc. but that's a whole 'nother discussion. Fewer than 4 letters and you generally can't claim ownership of it.
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Spencer and SmolScrappyHungry like this.
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Spencer
Andrew
http://schadavis.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Cultural-Appropriation-Resource-Sheet-Oct-2014.pdf
Spencer
I may have some other thoughts in the future--I don't want you to get the impression I just read this and brushed it off with "yeah cool"--but I'm preparing for a weekend backpacking trip, so it may be a couple days. š
Andrew
SmolScrappyHungry
You're #2 point speaks to me. I'm from rural midwest and this video pretty much nails the way political conversations might go.
https://youtu.be/9dKtxhuGS5k?t=150
So, with that said the night I was at the pdx protests, a Black speaker finished a moving talk and was clearly trying to get some crowd engagement/participation/energy going. The talk centered on community, us looking out for one another, and especially our Black neighbors. It was trying to knit us together so that Black lives and Black neighbors weren't seen as strangers or an "other" to protect. To pull us in, the speaker raised their fist inviting us all to do so and chant with with them. Given my background, this felt like someone had just g... show more
You're #2 point speaks to me. I'm from rural midwest and this video pretty much nails the way political conversations might go.
https://youtu.be/9dKtxhuGS5k?t=150
So, with that said the night I was at the pdx protests, a Black speaker finished a moving talk and was clearly trying to get some crowd engagement/participation/energy going. The talk centered on community, us looking out for one another, and especially our Black neighbors. It was trying to knit us together so that Black lives and Black neighbors weren't seen as strangers or an "other" to protect. To pull us in, the speaker raised their fist inviting us all to do so and chant with with them. Given my background, this felt like someone had just given me permission to do something that, I suppose implicitly, I'd have placed in the category of "just don't, that's probably not something you should do" and it felt very uncomfortable. But to ignore that call to action, that invitation to community, would have felt even MORE uncomfortable and would have mitigated the speaker's ability to lead us. It would have been like they FINALLY decided to toss a ball to me, and instead of me tossing it back, to just let it fall to the ground. I did join in, and it felt very weird, but it was important that we be a community.
This is more to say that I have a particular experience with your #2 point and I can't really understand how someone could interpret similar invitations at these protests as appropriation.
Andrew likes this.
Andrew
Iām not even saying that white people should always get to say and do those things, but that what should govern our behavior is more contextual than universal.
SmolScrappyHungry likes this.
SmolScrappyHungry
For me, in either case, I think the clear invitation is pretty important. It would feel inappropriate for me to be the one to be the first to throw the Black Power Fist unless we'd already created that in-group behavior as an ok thing, and that could be misinterpreted by someone who wasn't in that particular protesting cohort.
I'm a sucker for context. and it mattering š
Andrew
However when the group is 50-ish percent white, and the chant leaders are clear about wanting everyone in, I choose to look at it as amplifying Black voices/messaging. As someone who has called chants in the past, it really sucks when you start a new one and participation plummets amd the volume drops noticeably.
SmolScrappyHungry likes this.