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1/52 Good to see this Guardian Long Read, but as a historical ecologist I would like to add: humans do not just either stay within boundaries or destroy nature. It's often been a positive, dynamic human-nature symbiosis, with humans actively shaping and creating forests & #biodiversity #historicalecology

— here a (long!) thread with examples from across the world

theguardian.com/environment/20…

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2/52 Coinciding with #cop15 I've decided to do a little series here on some examples of *positive" human/biodiversity relations - prompted by above article and a recent exchange with @IrishRainforest

To state from outset: i fully recognise that so much human impact has been vastly, overwhelmingly detrimental - especially under capitolocene but also sometimes before. I am as devastated and aware as anyone. But this is why I think it is important to also know that it doesn't have to be this way,

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3/52 that there are other 'possibilities', to use David Graeber's phrase. This is not just about 'indigenous', 'nature-based' people living 'in harmony with nature'. Indeed, the idea of the 'ecologically noble savage' is as much of a stereotype as its agricultural counterpart, 'homo devastans'. In reality, whilst some 'nature-based' forage-hunters in the past have hunted some species to extinction, many agricultural practices are not as devastating, indeed can enhance biodiversity. Overall,
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4/52 it has not ALL been just a history of unilinear destruction of nature by humans.

So I will post different examples of this here every day this coming week.

1. Today, it's forest islands in West Africa. These were long thought of as last remnants of forest, surrounded by 'derived savanna', but James Fairhead and Melissa Leach showed that they were growing and created by people through villages, habitation and farming. Watch their film 'Second Nature' here:

youtube.com/watch?v=TgsRnGmI3U…

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5/52 Today on #Day2 of my #cop15 #HistoricalEcology mini series, I would like to stay in West Africa, looking at two further dimension of human/biodiversity relations here. Firstly: overall forest dynamics. We tend to assume that, other than human caused deforestation, forests are stable - hence vegetation maps like these, with WA 'forest zone'. And hence the intriguing historical puzzle of West Africa's famoua "forest kingdoms" (Benin, Asante, Yoruba) - how did centralisation occur in forests?
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6/52 But there is now increasing evidence that, during major dry periods around 3000 years ago, forests shrank to small refugia. It was only in the wake of depopulation (due to political upheavals, slave trade political upheaval) in 19th century that large parts of West Africa'a forest zone became heavily forested. You can read more in Fairhead and Leach's 1997 Reframing Deforestation, and in my own 'Was Benin a Forest Kingdom?'
(on researchgate) - Benin Iya earthwork, old pictures and all
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7/52 Secondly, West African ideas and practices of soil creation, as described here by James Fairhead (my PhD supervisor btw) and Ian Scoones. Soils are thought of as actively created and improved by humans, and people do make better, 'oily' soils that contribute to forest growth in many different ways.

researchgate.net/publication/2…

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8/52 It's #Day3 of #COP15 and of my #HistoricalEcology mini-series. Today it's the Amazon, really the heartland of historical ecology research. Just wanted to share this great Horizon documentary on how many areas now covered in rainforest were agricultural, thriving towns and cities, until 1492 and epidemic decimation in its wake; and how the Secret of Eldorado was Terra Preta - highly fertile soils created by people. Enjoy!

youtube.com/watch?v=0Os-ujelkg…

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9/52 And here a collection of essays by William Balee, on the role of humans in shaping Amazon forests. As he puts it: "we can no longer think about species and landscape diversity in any tropical forest without taking into account the intricacies of human history and the impact of all forms of knowledge and technology"

muse.jhu.edu/book/26080

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10/52 On #Day4 of our #COP15 #HistoricalEcology series, we travel to East Africa. Landscapes like the Serengeti are, for many, quintessential African wilderness, but as Jan Shetler showed in 'Imagining Serengeti', these landscapes were in fact created by Serengeti peoples, whose maintenance of water holes and seasonal, strategic burning created the conditions for wilderbeest and other wildlife to thrive

ohioswallow.com/book/Imagining…

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11/52 There is no doubt that today's rapidly increasing global meat consumption is unsustainable, and that cattle is a major contributor to carbon emissions, deforestation and biodiversity loss. I am 100% for synthetic meat, plant-based diets, etc. But this does not mean that ALL pastoralism, everywhere, is bad. As Ian Scoones shows here, pastoralism can help biodiversity thrive in areas unfit for treeplanting or crops.

theconversation.com/how-pastor…

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12/52 This is all the more important to stress now that #COP15 seems to be seriously considering the 30x30 plan. This plan is part of a long history of colonial land appropriation in the name of conservation, such as in Serengeti, and as it stands, could affect the lands and livelihoods of 300 million people, the ones least responsible for environmental destruction.

africanarguments.org/2022/12/w…

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13/52 As Scoones says, pastoralists can play an important role in conservation as land stewards, but so much conservation is about exclusion rather than inclusion, from the colonial period right to the 30x30 plan.

Right now, 150,000 Maasai are battling eviction from their land in Tanzania and Kenya.

Biodiversity conservation is vital, more so today than ever, but it needs to be ecologically right and just. So important not to blame and harm the wrong people

theguardian.com/global-develop…

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14/52 On #Day5 of this #cop15 #HistoricalEcology on more positive, dynamic human/biodiversity relations, we stay in East Africa but go from plains to mountainous areas, the Pare Mountains in Tanzania. Here, extensive pastoralism from the 16th-19th century did create grassier, less bushy landscapes (so not always suitable). Here, the loss large cattle herds due to Maasai raids and rinderpest, (post)colonial tree planting and above all the organic, local fostering of various trees all contributed
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15/52 to widespread increase in tree cover throughout the South Pare Mountains. You can read more about this in two of my own papers (for which i combined repeat photography, archival and ethnographic research): this one on tree symbolism discusses in more depth the different dynamics and ways people relate to sacred groves, colonial exotic trees and tree planting scheme, and indigenous and fruit trees in farms and around homesteads

jstor.org/stable/26393259#meta…

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16/52 This second paper is on repeat photography as a method in environmental anthropology, but also grapples very much with the kind of narratives we construct around environmental change, Perhaps not strictly about human/biodiversity relations, but an attempt to think through and discuss the complexities as well as the politics involved in all this, so maybe of interest too.

researchgate.net/publication/3…

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17/52 It's #Day6 of #COP15! Today we are in Southeast Asia, to look in a little more depth into shifting cultivation, also known as slash-and-burn or swidden agriculture or horticulture, widespread throughout the tropics. Shifting cultivation has long been regarded as hugely environmentally destructive. Here is an example of a colonial officer in Nigeria condemning it; everywhere colonial powers justified forest reserves as protection against this 'evil practice'
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18/52 But in fact, colonial officers in Nigeria & elsewhere on the ground did see that, in reality, shifting cultivation often worked very well - they just didn't translate this into policy (I have a chapter on this if anyone is interested). This was patently obvious to anyone paying a bit more attention. In the 1950s, the ethnoecologist Harold Conklin described in detail the ecological benefits of Mangyan swidden agriculture system in the Philipines, the high biodiversity
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19/52 and ecological resilience achieved. Another example is swidden horticulture in Papua New Guinea. The ever-changing patchwork of farm, forest and fallow described by @tutam in his chapter on Mengen landscapes here captures the dynamics and people-nature relations of shifting cultivation here and in so many other places really well

library.oapen.org/bitstream/ha…

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20/52 There are many different kinds of challenges to shifting cultivation today; in most places in the world, there is huge competition for land, for many different reasons. But this makes it all the more important to protect the rights of those with the least destructive practices,. This is expressed so well in this animated film made with the Coalition against Land Grabbing (CALG) - Philippines and to the the Batak Federation (Bayaan it Batak kat Palawan – BBKP)

youtube.com/watch?v=vQa3ZLO9A_…

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21/52 Today on #Day7 of this #COP15 #HistoricalEcology series, a look at Japan's #Satoyama system. I have to admit I only learned of this quite recently, when @BuildSoil mentioned that #StudioGhibli's My Neighbour Totoro was set in a Satoyama landscape. So this is more of a #fandom post - both of Studio Ghibli films (which I love) and of the Satoyama system. 'Satoyama' describes the mountain foothills and arable flat land border zone. Sato (里) means village, and yama (山) hill or mountain.
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22/52 Satoyama fosters a symbiotic relationship between small local forests, managed & coppiced by villagers, & farming, in particular rice paddies. It creates high biodiversity, in particular through its many ponds. It declined due to rural depopulation in the mid 20th century, but since the 1980s the Satoyama Iniative has been doing great work reviving the system. Here is a v nice National Geographic film Satoyama (with David Attenborough voiceover - bit out of sync!)

youtube.com/watch?v=iy6qRjgTyT…

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23/52 And then just now I also came across Takachihogo-Shiibayama, one of several sites in Japan where Globally Important Agricultural Heritage Systems (GIAHS) works. But I am really not a #Japan expert and would love to learn much, much more

takachihogo-shiibayama-giahs.c…

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24/52 Here is "The Seeds we sow" - a documentary about Takachiho. Which I have only just started watching myself, but it looks really good, too.
(And, since I have spare space: Studio Ghibli films are just about the most wonderful films about human-nature relations. #MyNeighbourTotoro, #PrincessMononoke, #Ponyo, #Nauticaa - all brilliant)

youtube.com/watch?v=7LXqoYyQZY…

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25/52 Today on #Day8 of #COP15 we are in #China, and I am posting a great piece about the #historicalecology of Jiuzhaigou National Nature Reserve in Sichuan Province. It discusses how moderate levels of disturbance create landscapes of higher biodiversity than complete protection - the “Intermediate disturbance hypothesis“ in landscape ecology. Yet here, too, the people who created

chinadialogue.net/en/nature/11…

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26/52 these biodiverse landscapes - through so many of the same techniques we have already seen elsewhere, such as farming, herding, woodcutting and judicious use of fire - are now banned from accessing it. The authors do note that today’s generation have mostly moved to other jobs and lifestyles - none of this is straight-forward, but still so much here to value and rediscover
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27/52 It's #Day9 of #COP15 and now we are in the #Mediterranean, an area full of rich #historicalecology and traditions of fostering #biodiversity. First look at #Spain and #Dehesa, an agrosilvopastoral system that combines nature conservation with sustainable rural development. This paper provides a good overview

doctorrange.com/PDF/Dehesa.pdf

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28/52 Farmers in Italy, Spain and France also developed "cultura promiscua", promiscuous culture or #polyculture: a system of intercropping that combines in particular wine and olive trees ("companian trees), but also many other plants, all complementing each other. It is ancient but still practiced very widely. Here is one nice introductory article - was going to add a picture I took myself in Italy this summer, when I learned about all this but can't upload (on train)

ladonaira.com/in-praise-of-pro…

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29/52 I really like the concept of edible landscapes, of a kind of plant architecture

“At the shade of a proud palm tree an olive tree sprouts, and under the olive tree, the fig and the pomegranate, and under that the grape. Under the grape the wheat, and then the leguminous. At last, the leafy greens. All that in the same year, and each one of them being fed at the shade of the other.”

– Natural History, Pliny the Elder, c.77 AD

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30/52 On #Day10 of this #COP15 #biodiversity series I am (mostly) focusing on #Britain. But first, a more general piece by Max Paschall, about Europe's lost forest gardens, including both 'cultura promiscua' in the Mediterranean but also Europe's and especially Britain's wider #historicalecology since the #Neolithic. It's really wonderful, especially about the #hazelnut - one of several absolute key 'life' trees for humans (more on this later)

resilience.org/stories/2020-10…

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I must say: I love this thread so much.
I can't keep up with it, but I'm planning to watch and read (almost) everything!
in reply to discovering nature

@discoveringnature oh thank you so much! that is such a lovely thing to say. I am learning so much in the process (though struggling to keep up with it myself! some posts really superficial) and really enjoying it. It's so nice to have a nice, positive thing to do every day
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

31/52 Since we are starting with prehistoric practices, a brief stop en route at one of my favourite places in the world, the bronze age #Pfahlbauten museum in Lake Constance. Here you can learn a lot about the kind of agroecology/fishing in the region in the bronze age - all very similar to what is described in Paschall's essay above.
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32/52 Whilst many of these practices disappeared over time, not all did - on the contrary. Oliver Rackham's great classic, History of the Countryside, so wonderfully captures British #historicalecology - here, too, it really hasn't been a story of unilinear deforestation, but an ever changing story of forest/human interplay. As in West Africa, UK was not, so often assumed, covered in forest until humans cut it all off; and copicing etc here, too, created particular forests, just like elsewhere
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33/52 Phoebe Weston - author of the article that inspired this thread - herself did a wonderful video about English woods in the spring, and about primroses. (can't find it just now, unfortunately). I remember her saying primroses indicated human managed/coppiced forests; here it says 'ancient' woodlands, 'relatively undisturbed', but I wonder whether that's not really actually the same?

woodlandtrust.org.uk/trees-woo…
picture of primroses with butterfly, taken from the woodland trust website

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34/52 There are lots of folk tales and myths about primroses. In general, there is so much ancient environmental knowledge here, too. Just a few days ago I saw on here this nice article about birds and bird knowledge in English place names, by Michael Warren

aeon.co/essays/british-place-n…

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35/52 And just this morning @rlcj sent me this paper about place names as traditional environmental knowledge (TEK) in the UK. I am really interested in setting up something to connect to these kinds of marginalised knowledges here, and @RadicalAnthro @helencornish and myself are putting together a workshop to discuss this (March 14th I think). We would really welcome participants and suggestions from here!

researchgate.net/publication/3…

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@cufcman @helencornish @rlcj @RadicalAnthro sorry! you can, actually, i just accidentally truncated the link. have just edted so hopefully it works for you too, now. thank you for pointing it out
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@cufcman @helencornish @RadicalAnthro I hope you now have access to it @cufcman. Taking note of your handle, here’s a short talk on watery place-names relating particularly to the River Eden. m.youtube.com/watch?v=XgifffEA…
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

36/52 Today i had a bit of a mishap, I accidentally started a new thread. I then copied most of the toots from that into this one, but, again accidentally, left out this one, on coppicing and Sprout Lands (after Oliver Rackham, before Phoebe Weston and primroses), so adding here now. Sprout Lands was recommended to me by @urbanmicrofarmer who also sent me this lovely 1940s clip on #hedging. I learned a lot from it!

mastodon.green/@pvonhellermann…

youtube.com/watch?v=WoprVhpOKI…


This is also explored in 'Sprout Lands. Tending the Endless Gift of Trees', by William Bryant Logan, about coppicing in the UK (as well as Spain, California and Japan). This book was recommended here by @urbanmicrofarmer - I have to confess I haven't read it yet myself but it looks wonderful. On my Christmas list!
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37/52 A bit late today for #Day11 of my #cop15 series (out all day)! Today it's #NorthAmerica, looking into fire management practices. It's pretty well known by now that one factor contributing to the severity of wildlfires in recent years (as well as climate change) is the interruption of native american practices of setting controlled fires, preventing larger fires. There is quite a lot of work on this - here a short overview from the National Park Service

nps.gov/subjects/fire/indigeno…

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38/52 In general, there is more and more evidence that, in contrast to uncontrolled large wildfires, controlled fires enhance, rather than reduce, biodiversity. Controlled fires are increasingly used by US and other forest management services, but it's been practiced throughout the world for many centuries. As the fire ecologist Kira Hoffmann puts it: "conservation of the world's biodiversity is embedded in indigenous fire stewardship"

pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2105…

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39/52 But it's native americans who are perhaps best known for judicious fire management, as for ecological wisdom in general. Two key authors who have written very powerfully about this are Vine Deloria (e 'Spirit and Reason') and Robin Wall Kimmerer. I have left her work last in this series as it's by far the best known- and so, so wonderful! Here she is talking powerfully about the Potawatomi concept of the Honourable Harvest, of taking only as much as you need

youtube.com/watch?v=Lz1vgfZ3et…

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40/52 And Braiding Sweetgrass is just such a wonderful, inspiring introduction to Potawatomi ideas and practices of conserving and respecting nature - its great success is not surprising and says so much about everyone's thirst for reconnecting to nature. Here is a photo my sister sent of the German translation - the bookseller's favourite book. My sister gave it to her mother-in-law, who reads it every morning to her husband
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41/52 It's #Day12, the penultimate day of #cop15. Today, some summarising reflection on all the things we looked at on this short (far from exhaustive, all too superficial) global tour of #biodiversity increasing practices.

Each example is rooted in local ecological dynamics; in local history, beliefs and stories - it's crucial to understand tradional environmental knowledge in this way.

Yet at the same time, you cannot help but be struck by remarkable commonalities, and it is these I would

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42/52 like to draw out today. Everywhere it is about understanding local ecological dynamics, and about working with them, not against.

Working with forests, mimicking, recreating forests through gardening: Amazon, Papua New Guinea, forest gardens in Europe, Satoyama in Japan

Improving soil through charcoal, controlled burning, human excrement etc: West African dark soils, Terra preta in Amazon, night soils in Europe

Working with hydrology/water systems: Satoyama, Pare irrigation, Merano

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43/52 (Btw I snuck in Merano & irrigation here: didn't talk about this before! But when I visited Merano in South Tyrol on holiday similiarites to Pare systems were so striking)

Controlled fires: North America, West Africa, China, Japan - everywhere, really

Building mounds, terraces, etc: South America, West Africa, etc. Had a lovely exchange with @CathHodsman on birdsite about this recently: how both animals and humans so often create mounds, more surface variability

twitter.com/PHellermann/status…

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44/52 Building of living fences and hedges: West and East Africa, hedging in the UK

Recognising and enhancing companion trees/species: Potawatomi pumkin, beans and corn; mediterranean wine/olive tree symbiosis

Key nut/oil tree that are fostered and enhanced as so central to life: maple trees in North America, hazelnut in Europe, Oil Palm in West Africa (more about this in my hopefully-forthcoming-at-some-point book)

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45/52 And integrated forms of pastoralism: East Africa, Spain, China

Too much football excitement in the house to concentrate, but just to conclude for today:

Everywhere, it's about the recreation and enhancement of nature; about fostering dynamic symbiosis between trees, grasses, mushrooms and animals; about 'intermediate levels of disturbance', to use that slightly technical phrase; and about reciprocity and respect

Tomorrow, some finale thoughts on what it all means for #COP15 and beyond!

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46/52 So it's #Day13, the final day of #COP15 - and of our #historicalecology series here. To return to the original Guardian article all this was in response to (adding here again for reference): this (monster rather than mini) thread has tried to put together evidence that the history of our relationship to nature has not been one of unilinear destruction; and that destruction is not "human nature".

theguardian.com/environment/20…

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47/52 How does this matter for #COP15, and beyond? Today it was great news that a (first!) Global Biodiversity Framework was forged. In the face of Sixth mass extinction, & with widespread rapid #capitolocence destruction, the protection of biodiverse forests, wildlife habitats & crucial ecosystems is hugely important - for example the Leuser Eco System in North Sumatra, or Okomu National Park in Nigeria. I'm myself involved in forest elephant protection here!

youtube.com/watch?v=2oQsJ1yhrq…

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48/52 BUT, with conservation of significant additional areas on the cards (#30x30), there are real concerns about what/whose land where will be zoned off - it should not be taken from people whose livelihoods are dependent on land AND whose practices anyway arenot harmful but increasing biodiversity. There are ways to combine conservation with local interests, and it's really not just about 'alternative income generating' schemes etc instead of access to land

youtube.com/watch?v=xRc7Ez8uY7…

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49/52 Moreover, as this brilliant graph by twitter.com/Leclere_David shows so clearly: increased/improved conservation alone is not enough. We need a transition to sustainable production and consumption to recover some of our recent biodiversity losses.

I do believe that a rediscovery and fostering of the #biodiversity enhancing historical practices throughout the world we've looked at here can play an important role in this.

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50/52 This does not mean advocating a return to the bronze age - derided and feared by so many! - but integrating and combining historical elements with modern technology, synthetic meat, solar panels and all. Like the orchards in my favourite #Solarpunk image, taken from this article by BrightFlame:

tc.columbia.edu/sustainability…

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51/52 Another important caveat: I am also NOT advocating the appropriation of indigenous knowledge and practice, its absorption into the status quo, etc; I am conscious of the profound rethinkind and relearning necessary in any genuine attempt at decolonised learning. However, I am hopeful that there are ways to recognise commonalities and to learn from each other that do not reproduce power hierarchies, do not expropriate. Finding this kind of approach may be difficult but needs to be core
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52/52 Anyway, to bring this #mammoth (!) thread to a close: I feel it's here on mastodon that we are forging those connections, having these conversations. I would love to learn more from all those of you doing #permaculture, #indigenous rights, #forestgardens, etc - very much at the beginning of all this myself.

PS i would never, ever have dared to do this on the birdsite - fear of backlash, of not getting it right. But here I felt I could. Thank you #mastodon

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in reply to Paul Watson

@lazcorp thank you so much! I’ve really enjoyed it myself to be honest - learned so much in the process and looking forward to learning much more
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

thanks for the great thread and for being open to additional thoughts from others ^-^
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

You might be interested in following @jdaldern, who is a great source on indigenous use of fire in California and the West. I followed him on the other site and was glad to see he made it here.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

> PS i would never, ever have dared to do this on the birdsite

?
do what, publish a text?

btw
52/52 -> this looks like you should definitely check out #friendica #misskey or #plume. You can post texts as long as you wish in one post on those instances.

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

in reply to Bodhi O'Shea

@Bodhioshea thank you! I hadn’t heard of Karl Hess - both what you wrote here about him@and the documentary are really interesting, also just to watch something on this from the 1980s. And: I too have a lifelong dislike of gadgets and specialist gear but had, until watching this, not fully seen the connection to my historical ecology interests. So thank you!
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

I like this one. I often balk at most #solarpunk imagery I see online. Especially the architectural renders. (I call them "BwS": "Bladerunner with Shrubbery"). But this one is actually nice. The kind of image I build in my mind when I read a good #solarpunk story.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

A brilliant thread & I'm very much looking forward to sinking into it properly.

In the meantime, a question jumps to mind: do you think modernity complicates this conversation? I'm wary when "humans and nature together" inspirations involve small populations and low densities in non-market contexts. E.g., subsistence hunting: many fine local & historical examples, but scaled to 8 billion people and market economies, it'd be disastrous.

in reply to Brandon Keim

@9brandon Yes, modernity does complicate things. We live in a complicated world and there are no panacea: i am certainly not advocating shifting cultivation everywhere. But some of the practices discussed do support quite high population densities and very much make sense as part of a mosaic of different land use practices, alongside eg synthetic meat to reduce large scale processed meat consumption. Older good practices that made/make sense as part of multi-pronged solutions
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

Why is biodiversity important?
Why it matters and what we can do to preserve it medium.com/@MarkZoetrope/why-i…
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

We live rurally and produce a fair amount of what we need at home - garden, photovoltaics, rainwater catchment, but go to town a couple times/month for necessities. It is overwhelming & depressing how much over-consumption of non-necessities is taking place, & I see little evidence of policies being developed to change that, or a workable plan for sustainable consumption that provides basic needs to all. The contrast between what we are doing & what is needed Is glaring.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

"This (monster rather than mini) thread has tried to put together evidence that the history of our relationship to nature has not been one of unilinear destruction; and that destruction is not 'human nature'".

Amen! Here's my contribution to the genre! ✊
darkoptimism.org/2019/08/06/hu…

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in reply to Shaun Chamberlin

@DarkOptimism ah - it’s all in there, too! Great piece, rhank you for adding that. I do feel that this understanding could do with a lot more publicity; you still come across the “humans are the virus” take all the time. (Most recently, for me, in Sweeth Tooth)
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

I assume that's a pop culture reference — it always reassures me when I don't get those!! 😄
in reply to Shaun Chamberlin

@DarkOptimism 😄 it’s a post-apocalyptic netflix series i watched with my son. It’s not that great (acting and script wise), but quite interesting as a sign of our times, and quite absorbing. All about a virus wiping out 80-90% of humans, just all children are born as hybrids, half human, half animal.

theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2…

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

Ah, thanks! I generally avoid series, but might add it to my handy "too braindead to do anything useful but not ready to sleep" list 😄

Am currently halfway through (i.e. last night fell asleep halfway through!) impressive 2022 documentary #TheGrab — recommended by several of our #SurvivingTheFuture community — which came to mind several times while reading your #TragedyOfTheNonCommons piece. Devastating.

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in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

controlled wild fire created hell in New Mexico when control got lost earlier this year.
in reply to uOMi

@suenosdeuomi yes, of course by definition the idea of controlled firest is not to lose control - if you do, that can be pretty bad. But I think there is scientific consensus by now that it's better to have sporadic small scale controlled fires than let it all build up until a massive completely uncontrolled wildfire
@uOMi
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

thanks for sharing, a beautiful and fascinating article. @interacter - I'd love to chat about this on the podcast!
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

that looks just like Northern California, the hills between Napa and Solano counties.
in reply to Dustin Driver

@dustindriver that’s really nice to hear and interesting - the dehesa pictures really reminded me of West African savanna tree landscapes, very similar too. Online pictures all much drier but I remerones just like the dehesa ones
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

Your mention of coppicing reminded me of Sprout Lands by William Bryant Logan. Focused mostly on Europe, but also addresses coppicing / pollarding in Japan, along with fire coppicing in North America

williambryantlogan.com

in reply to J Mills

Thank you so much! What a wonderful book, I hadn’t heard of it at all. I will have a UK/northern Europe day a little later this week, and talk about coppixing and Rackham’s History of the Countryside then - I will add this. Thank you! Sprout Lands is such a good title
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

another one I just remembered is Craeft by Alexander Langlands. Coppicing, hedging aren't the only subjects, but make a good appearance.

And here's a fun video on hedging, the traditional way:
youtu.be/WoprVhpOKIk

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in reply to J Mills

@urbanmicrofarmer this is just so lovely. thank you so much. i love the calm voice over; how much you learn; and the fact that the apprenctice is a young woman. and so glad you mentioned hedging, as I forgot! just now really thinking about how humans throughout the world have living fences/hedges - another really widespread practice
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

@IrishRainforest

Yes I like participatory agroecologic approach, excellent posts!

This a favorite of mine, Wetlands need People!?

google.com/url?sa=t&source=web…

Lots traditional ecological knowledge aka #ancestraltech n re water, towards oasification. mamanteo, amuna; waru waru, chinampas, johads...

in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

thank you for addressing this issue. this kind of human naturalist determinism argument is so common & so upsetting. not only is it wrong (as your excellent examples are showing), but it treats ecosystem destruction as natural & inevitable. the ultimate message is "it's just human nature, no point to fight it." from where i sit, it seems like just another example of the western tendency to universalize its own patterns.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

Thank you for such an amazing thread! Over the past 2 years, listening to many #Indigenous knowledge keepers, speakers - those that offer such gifts, I've come to think that #erasure of cultures, knowledge and most importantly history has been the most significant tool of loss of the last few centuries. #Capitalocene rather than #Anthropocene
in reply to Preston Walberg

@presandberg Yes, completely agree. I know it's a simplification in itself, but overwhelmingly, largely true
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

I have bookmarked this Guardian article for when I have more time, and the thread that follows looks of interest. Historical perspectives are critical. I often lament generational memory loss, a factor in our propensity to repeat mistakes.
in reply to Pauline von Hellermann

- Thank you for an excellent thread, a little of which I knew, but the majority is eye-opening.

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